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Please provide a concise list of everything you can think of that is meaningful from the
early Eras of Judiasm and Christianity, including the Essene and Gnostic Paradigms.
early Eras of Judiasm and Christianity, including the Essene and Gnostic Paradigms.
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Re: 1001 Gems of Esoteric/Early Christianity/Judaism/Essene/Gnostic
Tue, November 7, 2006 - 3:37 PMdone. -
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Re: 1001 Gems of Esoteric/Early Christianity/Judaism/Essene/Gnostic
Tue, November 7, 2006 - 3:57 PMthen you have never considered your opponents position with honesty, integrity, depth, or clarity, and, aren't honoring the stated premise of this thread.
I have what i shall call "faith" that your limited ego mind as small as it is can think of ten good things about early monotheistic reasoning.
if not, then you aren't worth talking to.
Intentional ignorance about a subject is not equal in any way to a knowledge of it equal to
disregard it. If you have nothing good to say on the topic, then you should have nothing at all to say about any of it; because you demonstrate through your inaction your ignorance.
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Re: 1001 Gems of Esoteric/Early Christianity/Judaism/Essene/Gnostic
Tue, November 7, 2006 - 4:55 PMMy list is as long as yours. -
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Re: 1001 Gems of Esoteric/Early Christianity/Judaism/Essene/Gnostic
Tue, November 7, 2006 - 5:20 PMHeres some examples...
1. The Essenes believed for a time in gender equality, and gave women the right to hold spiritual authority.
2. The essenes were a noble batch of rebels, who made their way out into the desert to
make sense of their religious environment. They were much like the modern new age movement, they bucked the system, they re-investigated old ideas and other religious paths, and they pulled sense together out of the noise of thousands of years of mere propaganda.
3. The essenes had a very sophisticated social system which functioned very well for several hundred people. Everybody was fed, clothed, sheltered, and cared for as a part of the social and cultural group identity.
4. Esoteric Judaisms tree of life; a very useful map of many different things, a sort of master scalar fractal that ends up applying to almost anything that involves polarities.
5. Qaballah etc.
6. The idea of the "one God" is simply more in line with God as God is rather than as a batch of people wearing god suits. The end of easy anthropormphication led on eventually to a wider, deeper, and subtler anthropomorphication, but compared to the older model, the newer model is clearly an improvement. No, i don't think that the greek gods were ever real, and no, i don't think yahweh was ever real. The identity of god is more like tiferet than any other description of god i have encountered, except maybe the TAO.
7. Democratic Distribution of wealth; if we followed the actual advice generated by several different branches of early monotheism, wealth would be constantly redistributed via the social construct of personal charity; the original and more real "faith based initiative."
8. Running strongly counter to the ideas of the day, essene and gnostic schools of thought were anti-war, and anti- ethnocentrism. -
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Re: 1001 Gems of Esoteric/Early Christianity/Judaism/Essene/Gnostic
Tue, November 7, 2006 - 5:23 PMwww.essenespirit.com/who.html
www.essene.org/Essene_Doctrine.htm
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essene
www.essene.com/BasicBeliefs.html
We believe that the Godhead is Ehyah, I AM.
We believe that Ehyah, I AM, is neither male nor female.
We believe that, for the purpose of creation, Ehyah manifested the Elohim, the Creative Spirits known as Divine Father God and Divine Mother Goddess, the masculine and feminine principles of creation.
We believe that the union of Father God and Mother Goddess is the procreative, generative power of the universe, that from their cosmic union comes forth the Divine Child: Creation.
We believe that all of Creation is the Divine Child, that all of us are Divine Children, that all of Creation is created in the image and likeness of the Triune Deity: Ehyah the Godhead (I AM), Divine Father God (the masculine principle), and Divine Mother Goddess (the feminine principle).
We believe that the Triune Deity is a Oneness in Three Modes, that within the Father is the Mother, that within the Mother is the Father, and that within both, as the source and basic identity of both, is Ehyah, the I AM.
We believe that the Divine Masculine Principle and the Divine Feminine Principle are equal in value and importance, in the heavens, on earth, and within us.
We believe that harmony will be experienced within and around us to the degree that the masculine principle and the feminine principle are in balance; and that disharmony will be experienced to the degree that they are out of balance.
We believe that, in relationship to us, God the Divine Masculine is Father, and Goddess the Divine Feminine is Mother; however, in relationship to Ehyah, their Source, they are the Divine Son and Divine Daughter, the only begotten children of Ehyah.
We believe that, in the sense described above, Yahowshua ha Mashiakh (Jesus the Christ) is both the Divine Father and the Only Begotten Son, in that he is the masculine aspect of the Elohim directly begotten by Ehyah.
We believe that Shekinah, the Holy Spirit, is in the sense described above, both the Divine Mother and the Only Begotten Daughter, in that she is the feminine aspect of the Elohim directly begotten by Ehyah.
We believe that the entire universe is a cosmic school system for the education of souls. Like all school systems, there are various levels; when we learn the lessons of one level, we graduate to the next.
We believe that there are countless heavenly realms and countless hellish realms. If we create a heavenly consciousness within, we will later experience a heavenly outer-realm as well. If we create hell within, we will later experience an outer hell realm as well.
We believe that reincarnation is a fact of life at this level of the cosmic school system. However, our goal is to transcend the need for reincarnation by the manifestation of angelic bodies of light that never die.
We believe that Jesus was an Nasorean Essene from Mount Carmel, he taught that God is both Father and Mother and an holistic spiritual practice called, "The Nazarene Way".
We believe that the first Christians were Nasorean Essenes who accepted Jesus as the Messiah. They practiced "The Nazarene Way".
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Re: 1001 Gems of Esoteric/Early Christianity/Judaism/Essene/Gnostic
Tue, November 7, 2006 - 5:26 PMwww.gnostic.org/
www.coptic.net/articles/G...eresies.txt
mb-soft.com/believe/txn/gnostici.htm
www.religioustolerance.org/gnostic.htm
www.religioustolerance.org/gnostic2.htm
Gnostic beliefs:
The Nag Hummadi find revealed that there was a broad range of beliefs among the various independent Gnostic systems or schools. However, the following points are believed to be generally accurate throughout the movement: Their Role: They believed that they alone truly understood Christ's message, and that other streams of thought within Christianity had misinterpreted Jesus' mission and sayings.
Gnosis: Knowledge to them was not an intellectual exercise; it was not a passive understanding of some aspect of spirituality. Rather, knowledge had a redeeming and liberating function that helped the individual break free of bondage to the world.
Deity: The Supreme Father God or Supreme God of Truth is remote from human affairs; he is unknowable and undetectable by human senses. She/he created a series of supernatural but finite beings called Aeons. One of these was Sophia, a virgin, who in turn gave birth to an defective, inferior Creator-God, also known as the Demiurge. (Demiurge means "public craftsman" in Greek.) This lower God is sometimes called Yaldabaoth or Ialdabaoth Jaldabaoth -- from Aramaic words meaning "begetter of the Heavens." This is Jehovah, the God of the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament). He is portrayed as the creator of the earth and its life forms. He is viewed by Gnostics as fundamentally evil, jealous, rigid, lacking in compassion, and prone to genocide. The Demiurge "thinks that he is supreme. His pride and incompetence have resulted in the sorry state of the world as we know it, and in the blind and ignorant condition of most of mankind."
Duality of spirit and body: Spirit is of divine origin and good; the body is inherently earthly and evil. Gnostics were hostile to the physical world, to matter and the human body. But they believed that trapped within some people's bodies were the sparks of divinity or seeds of light that were supplied to humanity by Sophia.
Salvation: A person attains salvation by learning secret knowledge of their spiritual essence: a divine spark of light or spirit. They then have the opportunity to escape from the prison of their bodies at death. Their soul can ascend to be reunited with the Supreme God at the time of their death. Gnostics divided humanity into three groups: The spiritual, who would be saved irrespective of their behavior while on earth.
The Soulish, who could be saved if they followed the Gnostic path.
The carnal who are hopelessly lost.
Evil: They did not look upon the world as having been created perfectly and then having degenerated as a result of the sin of Adam and Eve. Rather the world was seen as being evil at the time of its origin, because it had been created by an inferior God.
Snake Symbol: Some Gnostic sects honored the snake. They did not view the snake as a seducer who led the first couple into sinful behavior. Rather, they saw him/it as a liberator who brought knowledge to Adam and Eve by convincing them to eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil and thus to become fully human.
Christ: The role of the redeemer in Gnostic belief is heavily debated at this time. Gnostics seem to have looked upon Christ as a revealer or liberator, rather than a savior or judge. His purpose was to spread knowledge which would free individuals from the Demiurge's control and allow them to return to their spiritual home with the Supreme God at death. Some Gnostic groups promoted Docetism, the belief that Christ was pure spirit and only had a phantom body; Jesus just appeared to be human to his followers. They reasoned that a true emissary from the Supreme God could not have been overcome by the evil of the world, and to have suffered and died. These beliefs were considered heresy by many non-Gnostic Christians. Some Gnostics believed that Christ's resurrection occurred at or before Jesus' death on the cross. They defined his resurrection as occurring when his spirit was liberated from his body. Many Gnostics believed that Jesus had both male and female disciples.
The Universe: This is divided into three kingdoms:
The "Earthly Cosmos": The earth is the center of the universe, and is composed of the world that we know of and an underworld. It is surrounded by air and by 7 concentric heavenly spheres: one for each of the Moon, Venus, Mercury, Sun, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn. (Although the planet Uranus is visible to the naked eye, it was not recognized as a planet in ancient times.) Beyond Saturn resides Leviathan, a snake coiled in a single circle, devouring its own tail. Within these spheres live demonic, tyrannical entities called Archons. Beyond them lies Paradise which contains the "Tree of Life", the "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil", and the flaming, turning sword of Genesis 3:24. Beyond Paradise was the sphere of the fixed stars, divided into the 12 signs of the zodiac.
The "Intermediate Kingdom is composed of an inner blue circle of darkness and an outer yellow ring of light. Within these rings is a sphere which is the realm of Sophia.
The "Kingdom of God" consists of two spheres: an outer one of the unknowable Supreme God, and inner ring of the Son.
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Re: 1001 Gems of Esoteric/Early Christianity/Judaism/Essene/Gnostic
Tue, November 7, 2006 - 5:26 PMMy list is as long as yours.
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if you can't play this game, please by all means visit the "fatal flaws" thread.
Notice i posted both simultaneously.
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Re: 1001 Gems of Esoteric/Early Christianity/Judaism/Essene/Gnostic
Tue, November 7, 2006 - 7:32 PMWhy? -
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Re: 1001 Gems of Esoteric/Early Christianity/Judaism/Essene/Gnostic
Wed, November 8, 2006 - 1:30 PMto see if you had any brains.
do you? -
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Re: 1001 Gems of Esoteric/Early Christianity/Judaism/Essene/Gnostic
Wed, November 8, 2006 - 5:18 PMPr: do you?
Oh, very witty. Do it some more. -
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Re: 1001 Gems of Esoteric/Early Christianity/Judaism/Essene/Gnostic
Mon, November 13, 2006 - 12:02 PMinteresting krampus. In fact the roman catholic church invented the western concept of evil, and sin, as well as satan and etc.
This only went from bad to worse as they used those concepts in a projection cycle to become the concepts they had created.
But it is worth noting that the original christian paradigm didn't contain those elements.
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Re: 1001 Gems of Esoteric/Early Christianity/Judaism/Essene/Gnostic
Wed, November 8, 2006 - 1:37 PMI particularly like (but do not believe) the gnostic creation stories "On the Origin of the World" and "The Hypostasis of the Archons". They are logically consistent and prevent the problem of evil from arising.
www.gnosis.org/naghamm/origin.html
www.gnosis.org/naghamm/hypostas.html -
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Re: 1001 Gems of Esoteric/Early Christianity/Judaism/Essene/Gnostic
Mon, November 13, 2006 - 6:57 PM
prometheus, good post, close but no cigar...it's headed in the right direction though -
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Re: 1001 Gems of Esoteric/Early Christianity/Judaism/Essene/Gnostic
Mon, November 13, 2006 - 7:08 PMgod star, thanks for the spam. Got anything on topic to add? -
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Re: 1001 Gems of Esoteric/Early Christianity/Judaism/Essene/Gnostic
Mon, November 13, 2006 - 7:20 PM
Spam?
What, I leave this tribe for a few days and you think you own this tribe?
all these animalisic perverted threads going on here…
for one you can find some better links and documents on the real gnosis
excerpt from one of your links
“Gnosticism is the best example of Hellenic Syncretism.[1] It was a
blend of Platonic philosophy, ancient gods, and a pinch of every school of thought at the time.” -
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Re: 1001 Gems of Esoteric/Early Christianity/Judaism/Essene/Gnostic
Mon, November 13, 2006 - 7:26 PMSpam?
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your post contained zero content, and, i don't need an evaluator.
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What, I leave this tribe for a few days and you think you own this tribe?
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No, i'm just rude to spammers.
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all these animalisic perverted threads going on here…
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that reminds me, i think i'll post a thread on animism and totemism. Aside from that, the above might be construed as
an ad hominem but is otherwise senseless.
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for one you can find some better links and documents on the real gnosis
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i might, but then, you might since you seem to have a personal taste for it.
Why don't you?
I'm just trying to host a meaningful thread here and run a sort of experiment to see if the forum can handle
something more than tearing paradigms and each other down.
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excerpt from one of your links
“Gnosticism is the best example of Hellenic Syncretism.[1] It was a
blend of Platonic philosophy, ancient gods, and a pinch of every school of thought at the time.”
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yes, gnosticsism was a sort of eclectic mix of everything that the gnostics found to their liking. I like eclecticism personally, and i find this to
be a point in their favor. Thanks for adding such an important point.
Gnostics were eclectic. Kudos to them for that, eclecticism means open minded thinking and a willingness to use what works and
adapt to multiple systems and ways of seeing things.
:) -
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Re: 1001 Gems of Esoteric/Early Christianity/Judaism/Essene/Gnostic
Mon, November 13, 2006 - 7:43 PM
It matters very little to me of what you need, this is a public forum act like it
"I'm just trying to host a meaningful thread"
I see, it’s meaningful because you started it, and now want to control it
“yes, gnosticsism was a sort of eclectic mix of everything that the
gnostics found to their liking.”
are you kidding me? this is completely wrong, and they weren’t eclectic, are you sure you should be having topic and conversation, unless you got some Nubians up in this Beiatch and Ethiopians up in this piece with some real soul… it’s just another watered down and misunderstood pagan lore... the knowledge comes from Thoth
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Re: 1001 Gems of Esoteric/Early Christianity/Judaism/Essene/Gnostic
Mon, November 13, 2006 - 8:41 PM
See Gemini (mercury) is really Thoth which is GNOSIS
Knowledge with god...
*to me this is huge profound insight
Transformer of souls (he's the one in the Halls of Justice, the Scales of Truth, who weighs your heart against a feather.)
THOTH/GEMINI/GNOSIS ...
Gemini (Gem in i)...the messenger
Gemini (Ray 2 of Love/Wisdom) works directly with three planets in our solar system. The first is Mercury (Ray 4)
Mercury carries messages between the poles with the speed of light. Mercury is the god of duality and mediation and manifests in our world, not only as the information giver, but also as the connecting link between the higher (abstract, symbolic, pattern-identifying) and lower (logical, analytical, personal me) minds. Mercury eventually establishes Right Human Relations, after the logical and the abstract levels of the mind have been developed and overstood
Throughout the ages Mercury has been known by different names to fit the times, but in each incarnation he seemed to teach the same disciplines. To the ancient Egyptians he was Anubis, the jackal- headed god, who prepared and led the deceased through underworld corridors to final judgment.
He was also Thoth, the ibis-headed god, who taught all things mathematical and reasonable and was considered to be the mind principle of Ra, the Egyptian Sun god. Both Thoth and Anubis were thought to have created all knowledge, which included language, astronomy, arithmetic, music, medicine, laws, and science.
In Greece, Mercury was called Hermes, the god of wisdom, and later in history, from 580 to 500 B.C., Mercury incarnated as Pythagoras and created a system of metaphysics that uses numbers and geometry to explain the universal mysteries. It is said that in Mercury's present-day incarnation he is the Ray 2 Master Koot Humi and the one who will succeed the Christ as Teacher of the World. -
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Re: 1001 Gems of Esoteric/Early Christianity/Judaism/Essene/Gnostic
Tue, November 14, 2006 - 1:09 PM
Throughout the ages Mercury has been known by different names to fit the times, but in each incarnation he seemed to teach the same disciplines. To the ancient Egyptians he was Anubis, the jackal- headed god, who prepared and led the deceased through underworld corridors to final judgment.
He was also Thoth, the ibis-headed god, who taught all things mathematical and reasonable and was considered to be the mind principle of Ra, the Egyptian Sun god. Both Thoth and Anubis were thought to have created all knowledge, which included language, astronomy, arithmetic, music, medicine, laws, and science.
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interesting material, but it seems to be straying from the stated purpose of the thread. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: 1001 Gems of Esoteric/Early Christianity/Judaism/Essene/Gnostic
Tue, January 23, 2007 - 4:58 PMThe fundie atheists didn't participate and thus showed that as per anotehr participants observations, they are
just here to attack and knock things down, not build things up.
There are good things in the paradigm, and any honest work foreward to get anywhere worth going has to include
looking at the good in the paradigm and carryying that foreward.
what are the good things in the paradigm? -
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Re: 1001 Gems of Esoteric/Early Christianity/Judaism/Essene/Gnostic
Tue, January 23, 2007 - 9:28 PMEvery belief system has good parts at the core. In my opinion, everything that focuses on Love, and admonishes to avoid Fear is a good thing. Dogma and mythos' tend to distract from these core principals and creates a point of division, which in turn leads to misunderstanding and war. That is bad. Whatever mythos works for you is fine by me, but I personally avoid dogmatic approaches to spirituality. -
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Re: 1001 Gems of Esoteric/Early Christianity/Judaism/Essene/Gnostic
Fri, January 26, 2007 - 2:00 PMthanks whisper. For the most part, those are things that are good criteria for looking at any religious or ethical
paradigm. The Gnostics did organize somewhat into small cabals, but nothing very centralized, which is why
the movement was so strong in some ways; hundreds of different individuals were more or less exploring the same
directions together rather than being authorities over each other.
It was a sort of judaic conceptual renaisaunce
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Re: 1001 Gems of Esoteric/Early Christianity/Judaism/Essene/Gnostic
Tue, November 14, 2006 - 1:08 PM
“yes, gnosticsism was a sort of eclectic mix of everything that the
gnostics found to their liking.”
are you kidding me? this is completely wrong, and they weren’t eclectic, are you sure you should be having topic and conversation, unless you got some Nubians up in this Beiatch and Ethiopians up in this piece with some real soul… it’s just another watered down and misunderstood pagan lore... the knowledge comes from Thoth
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gnosticism was an eclectic mix of judaism, paganism, mithraism, and potentially, thoth worship, tho i don't know too much about that. -
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Re: 1001 Gems of Esoteric/Early Christianity/Judaism/Essene/Gnostic
Tue, January 23, 2007 - 9:24 PMGnosticism wasn't an organized religion, but more of a general school of thought. Some people with similar views would organize, but there was no formal "gnostic church".
Many of the early Christians held gnostic beliefs. You see this in one of Paul's letters to Timothy, where he warns him not to fall in with their ideas (referring to some of the churches of the original 12 disciples).
It did tend towards eclectic blending of concepts from various belief systems, and often held a "all gods are the same God" standing.
Whisper
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