Kjyl (spongebob)
"don't forget there was a long tradition of slavery on the african contenent long before darwin.
who do you think was selling the slaves?"
"name one african culture that did not have slave. heck look up the barbury corsairs
zulus did it, egyptians did it. it was an ingrained cultural process
belive what you want but it was not just a bunch of dutch guys with nets and guns."
No where in African history do I find any example where slavery was the principal mode of production of an African society. No such slave societies were created on the continent and certainly no such societies where foreign labor was imported for the purpose of enslavement and hence, production. Africans had no global interest in the movement of African people and saw in the `trade" no advantage of a strategic nature.
I believe that it is more beneficial to seek the answers to the ideological foundations of slavey in Europe itself. At least, it is in Europe where we discover the first initiatives for the capture and use of Africans in the Americas and the Caribbean. And here in Portugal we are near the beginning of the puzzle itself. In an attempt to explain the relationship of racism and economics to the motivation behind the enslavement of Africans, scholars writing in English have concentrated on two arguments and these arguments might be expanded as we continue to see the unfolding of the "The Route of the Slaves Project."
The Ideology of Racial Hiearchy and the Construction of the European Slave Trade
www.asante.net/scholarly/...earchy.html
Chattel Slavery Vs. Servitude
blackhistory.tribe.net/thread...b070430
Did We Sell Each Other Into Slavery? NO!
blackhistory.tribe.net/thread...c303f1c
Guilty people place the burden entirely on the victims themselves, that is, that it was Africans who created the conditions of enslavement. This falls into the category of blaming the victim much like the person who beats a spouse and then claims that the spouse caused the violence. Of course, some spouses may not be blameless, as all Africans may not be, in the long engagement with the European Slave Trade. Yet it is not correct to blame the actions of the oppressor on the oppressed.
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Re: Ideology of Racial Hiearchy Euro Slave Trade
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 4:35 PM
This singular short tart claim, that "We sold each other into slavery", has maintained in a state of continual flux our historical basis for Black-on-Black self love and mutual cooperation at the level of Class. Even if it is true (without further clarification) that we sold each other into slavery, this should not absolve Whites of their responsibility in our subjugation. We will deal with Africa if need be.
The period from the beginning of the TransAtlantic African Slave so-called Trade (1500) to the demarcation of Africa into colonies in the late 1800s is one of the most documented periods in World History. Yet, with the (ONE) exception of the renegade African slave raider Tippu Tip of the Congo (Muslim name, Hamed bin Muhammad bin Juna al-Marjebi) who was collaborating with the White Arabs (also called Red Arabs) there is little documentation of independent African slave raiding.
By independent is meant that there were no credible threats, intoxicants or use of force by Whites to force or deceive the African into slave raiding or slave trading and that the raider himself was not enslaved to Whites at the time of slave raiding or "trading". Trade implies human-to-human mutuality without force.
This was certainly not the general scenario for the TransAtlantic so-called Trade in African slaves. Indeed, it was the Portuguese who initiated the European phase of slave raiding in Africa by attacking a sleeping village in 1444 and carting away the survivors to work for free in Europe.
Even the case of Tippu Tip may well fall into a category that we might call the consequences of forced cultural assimilation via White (or Red) Arab Conquest over Africa. Tippu Tip s father was a White (or Red) Arab slave raider, his mother an unmixed African slave. Tip was born out of violence, the rape of an African woman. It is said that Tip, a "mulatto", was merciless to Africans. -
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Re: Ideology of Racial Hiearchy Euro Slave Trade
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 4:39 PM
The first act against Africa by Whites was an unilateral act of war, announced or unannounced. There were no African Kings or Queens in any of the European countries nor in the U.S. when ships set sail for Africa to capture slaves for profit. Whites had already decided to raid for slaves. They didn t need our agreement on that. Hence, there was no mutuality in the original act.
The African so-called slave "trade" was a demand-driven market out of Europe and America, not a supply-driven market out of Africa. We did not seek to sell captives to the Whites as an original act. Hollywood s favorite is showing Blacks capturing Blacks into slavery, as if this was the only way capture occurred. There are a number of ways in which capture occurred. Let s dig a little deeper into this issue.
Chancellor Williams, in his classic work, The Destruction of Black Civilization, explains that after the over land passage of African trade had been cut off at the Nile Delta by the White Arabs in about 1675 B.C. (the Hyksos), the Egyptian/African economy was thrown into a recession. There is even indication of "pre-historic" aggression upon Africa by White nomadic tribes (the Palermo Stone).
As recession set in the African Government began selling African prisoners of war and criminals on death row to the White Arabs. This culminated as an unfortunate trade, in that, when the White Arabs attacked, they had the benefit of the knowledge and strength of Africans on their side, as their slaves. This is a significantly different picture than the propaganda that we sold our immediate family members into slavery to the Whites.
In reality, slavery is an human institution. Every ethnic group has sold members of the same ethnic group into slavery. It becomes a kind of racism; that, while all ethnic groups have sold its own ethnic group into slavery, Blacks can't do it. When Eastern Europeans fight each other it is not called tribalism. Ethnic cleansing is intended to make what is happening to sound more sanitary. What it really is, is White Tribalism pure and simple.
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Re: Ideology of Racial Hiearchy Euro Slave Trade
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 4:38 PMgod star (prick)
I am black, so unless I am blameing myself, for oppressing my self. your argument fails.
second
many, hell all african cultures had slavery, the europeans did not introduce anything new to the african culture, all they did was use a system that was already in place.
now in the south the ratio of slave to slave owner was high, not however unheard of in history, especaily when you start counting surfs, and other people whom where not neccesaryily at their own liberty.
slavery in america was bad, slavery anywhere is bad. but not accepting the culpability of the affricans who were complicit in the slave trade is not the answer. White washing, pardon the pun turns them into a disneyland version of history and is just plain bad scholarship. -
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Re: Ideology of Racial Hiearchy Euro Slave Trade
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 4:45 PM
you are not Black - Black is not a color - You look like a Clown -i wouldn't say you we very bright either
the argument hasn't even started yet...then show me your proof of African slavery ...Show it to me Spongbob
show me that every African Culture had slavery like the transatlantic Euro capitalism system -
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Re: Ideology of Racial Hiearchy Euro Slave Trade
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 4:48 PM
The fact of African resistance to European Imperialism and Colonialism is not well known, though it is well documented.
Europeans entered Africa in the mid 1400 s and early 1500 s during a time of socio-political transition. Europeans chose a favorite side to win between African nations at a war and supplied that side with guns, a superior war instrument. In its victory, the African side with guns rounded up captives of war who were sold to the Europeans in exchange for more guns or other barter. Whites used these captives in their own slave raids.
These captives often held pre-existing grudges against groups they were ordered to raid, having formerly been sold into slavery themselves by these same groups as captives in inter-African territorial wars. In investigating our history and capture, a much more completed picture emerges than simply that we sold each other into slavery.
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Re: Ideology
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 6:09 PMI would recommend you both avoid name calling. Try to keep it cool, thanks.
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Re: Ideology
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 6:49 PMYour Avatar Photo may not be the "real you" here in Tribe!
I "could" put up a Photo of Joan Crawford for example but I'd still be a "White Male"
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Re: Ideology of Racial Hiearchy Euro Slave Trade
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 5:14 PM
Maafa
AFRICAN HOLOCAUST - The history of Africa restored (Video)
www.africanholocaust.net/ah_video.htm
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maafa
www.africawithin.com/maafa/slavery.htm
The word Maafa (also known as the African Holocaust or Holocaust of Enslavement) is derived from a Kiswahili word meaning disaster, terrible occurrence or great tragedy.[1][2] The term refers to the 500 years of suffering of Africans and the African diaspora, through slavery, imperialism, colonialism, invasion, oppression, dehumanization and exploitation.[2][3] The term also refers to the social and academic policies that were used to invalidate or appropriate the contributions of African peoples to humanity as a whole,[2] and the residual effects of this persecution, as manifest in contemporary society.[4]
Maafa can be considered an area of study within African history in which both the actual history and the legacy of that history are studied as a single discourse. Thus the paradigm emphasizes the legacy of the African Holocaust on African peoples globally. The emphasis in the historical narrative is on African agents, in opposition to what is perceived to be the conventional Eurocentric voice; for this reason Maafa is an aspect of Pan-Africanism. -
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Re: Ideology of Racial Hiearchy Euro Slave Trade
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 5:22 PMWhat would you accept as proof, my love of fried chicken? My gigantic penis?
I cant prove anything to you becase just like any racist, you ignore that which you don't like.
ta
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Re: Ideology of Racial Hiearchy Euro Slave Trade
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 5:29 PM
THE MAAFA (African Holocaust)
www.swagga.com/maafa.htm
The Black Holocaust: From Maafa to Colonization
www.geocities.com/CollegePa...caust.html
The loss of Black power was a key reason for the Black Holocaust. The downfall of African cultural complexes can be blamed on a host of factors including environmental changes and internal struggles. But by far, the most disastrous effect has been left by the continent's invaders. Africa, envied for its wealth, has been invaded repeatedly. Continually from the north, waves of non-Black peoples invaded and settled portions of the continent, pushing Africans further into the interior. The idea that Africans are a backwards people devoid of history and achievement is a common one. This belief was a primary tool used to rationalize the brutalities inflicted upon Africa's sons and daughters. But it is well known that for several thousand years, the greater part of human history, Africans were developing their own cultural complexes and contributing to others outside of the continent.
The Forgotten Holocaust: The Eastern Slave Trade
The Arab (WHITE) Slave Trade is the longest yet least discussed of the two major trades. It begins in the 7th century AD as [White] Arabs and others poured into Northern and Eastern Africa under the banner of Islam, either converting or subjugating the African societies they came upon. In the beginning there was some level of mutual respect between the Blacks and the more Caucasian-Semitic Arabs. Mihdja, a Black man, is said to be the first Muslim killed in battle while another, Bilal, is regarded as a "third of the faith." Dhu'l-Nun al-Misri, born in Upper Egypt near Sudan, is regarded as the founder of Sufism. Today Sufism's greatest stronghold is in Southern Egypt and Sudan.
Islamic prosperity was based upon Black men
But as Islamic prosperity grew, so did an air of hostility towards many Blacks, Muslims or otherwise.
These new attitudes towards Blacks by Arabs marked the beginning of African enslavement. (Chattel Slavery Vs. Servitude)
Capitalism to trade to and from white people...supply and demand. -
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Re: Ideology of Racial Hiearchy Euro Slave Trade
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 5:38 PM
Difference in Capitalistic slavery
Black Britannica (good site)
search.eb.com/blackhistory
Slavery of exchange with Africans; that wasn’t until later that the Moors (islamic) came to Africa to sell out Africans for a profit, Africa did not have the commercial aspect of commerce (capitalism) And this is where many are misguided into thinking the kind of treatment of slavery was the same - it wasn't.
“Slavery existed in a large number of past societies whose general characteristics are well-known. It was rare among primitive peoples, such as the hunter-gatherer societies, because for slavery to flourish, social differentiation or stratification was essential. Also essential was an economic surplus, for slaves were often consumption goods who themselves had to be maintained rather than productive assets who generated income for their owner. Surplus was also essential in slave systems where the owners expected economic gain from slave ownership.”
“Ordinarily there had to be a perceived labor shortage, for otherwise it is unlikely that most people would bother to acquire or to keep slaves. Free land, and more generally, open resources, were often a prerequisite for slavery; in most cases where there were no open resources, non-slaves could be found who would fulfill the same social functions at lower cost. Last, some centralized governmental institutions willing to enforce slave laws had to exist, or else the property aspects of slavery were likely to be chimerical. Most of these conditions had to be present in order for slavery to exist in a society; if they all were, until the abolition movement of the 19th century swept throughout most of the world, it was almost certain that slavery would be present. Although slavery existed almost everywhere, it seems to have been especially important in the development of two of the world's major civilizations, Western (including ancient Greece and Rome) and Islamic.”
There have been two basic types of slavery throughout recorded history. The most common has been what is called household, patriarchal, or domestic slavery.
The other major type of slavery was productive slavery. It was relatively infrequent and occurred primarily in classical Athenian Greece and Rome and in the post-Columbian circum-Caribbean New World. It also was found in 9th-century Iraq, among the Kwakiutl Indians of the American Northwest, and in a few areas of sub-Saharan Africa in the 19th century. Although slaves also were employed in the household, slavery in all of those societies seems to have existed predominantly to produce marketable commodities in mines or on plantations.”
“Slavery was a species of dependent labor differentiated from other forms primarily by the fact that in any society it was the most degrading and most severe. Slavery was the prototype of a relationship defined by domination and power. But throughout the centuries man has invented other forms of dependent labor besides slavery, including serfdom, indentured labor, and peonage.”
A person became an indentured servant by borrowing money and then voluntarily agreeing to work off the debt during a specified term. In some societies indentured servants probably differed little from debt slaves (i.e., persons who initially were unable to pay off obligations and thus were forced to work them off at an amount per year specified by law). Debt slaves, however, were regarded as criminals (essentially thieves) and thus liable to harsher treatment. Perhaps as many as half of all the white settlers in North America were indentured servants, who agreed to work for someone (the purchaser of the indenture) upon arrival to pay for their passage.”
Peons were either persons forced to work off debts or criminals. Peons, who were the Latin-American variant of debt slaves, were forced to work for their creditors to pay off what they owed. They tended to merge with felons because people in both categories were considered criminals, and that was especially true in societies where money fines were the main sanction and form of restitution for crimes. Thus, the felon who could not pay his fine was an insolvent debtor. The debt peon had to work for his creditor, and the labor of the criminal peon was sold by the state to a third party.
In England about 10 percent of the population were slaves, with the proportion reaching as much as 20 percent in some places. Slaves were also prominent in Scandinavia during the Viking era, AD 800–1050, when slaves for use at home and for sale in the international slave markets were a major object of raids. Slaves also were present in significant numbers in Scandinavia both before and after the Viking era.
Continental Europe—France, Germany, Poland, Lithuania, and Russia—all knew slavery. Russia was essentially founded as a by-product of slave raiding by the Vikings passing from Scandinavia to Byzantium in the 9th century, and slavery remained a major institution there until the early 1720s, when the state converted the household slaves into house serfs in order to put them on the tax rolls.
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