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please make a concise list of all the things you can think of that are wrong with the Judaic paradigm.
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Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Mon, November 13, 2006 - 12:45 PM1. the paradigm is based on things like goats and sheep. Its obviously a six thousand year old paradigm.
2. Its a social engineering propaganda device, not a religion as such.
3. sexism
4. read exodus. God doesn't condone genocide. -
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Re: 1001 fatal misunderstandings of Judaism
Mon, November 13, 2006 - 1:05 PMProm,
Please substatiate your assertions. You do cite Exodus ("Shemot" in Hebrew)--which part? It's a big book. Where does Judaism "condone genocide"? In comparison to most other religions, Judaism is tolerant and accepting of the other faiths (nations or "goyim") and even provides a simple and direct path to heaven for those who do not wish to take on the responsibilities, obligations, and privileges of Judaism. (See Seven Noahide Laws en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noahide_Laws ).
1. Pardigm is not the right word. Def 'paradigm' is "A "view" of how things work in the world." but the Torah asserts the way things have happened now HOW they happen. God's methodology (and most of man's ) is left out. Moreover, of the over 300 texts related to the Jewish religion, the mention of sheep and goats is less than 1%. Even in the Torah.
2. Religion always incoroprates aspects of "social engineering" in that they are trying to develop a society with rules, boundaries, responsibilities, and even rights. Why is this a bad thing?
3. Even if this were a flaw, why would it be fatal? How is Judaism any more sexist than every other religion? Sexism is "prejudice or discrimination based on gender" which occurs even in our modern society. Or do you use the ladies room when you're at the mall or theater? And of course you are bisexual--because otherwise would be 'sexist.'
4. See above.
:)
Feiruz -
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Re: 1001 fatal misunderstandings of Judaism
Mon, November 13, 2006 - 3:26 PM1. Pardigm is not the right word. Def 'paradigm' is "A "view" of how things work in the world." but the Torah asserts the way things have happened now HOW they happen.
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if one assumes that its god talking, you ar eright. I don't. Its a paradigm, period.
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God's methodology (and most of man's ) is left out.
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thats a nice theory, but its simply an abstraction thats rendered meaningless when you realize that the whole work is in fact a
social engineering propaganda text; it IS a methodology of indoctrination and socialization and thought control.
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Moreover, of the over 300 texts related to the Jewish religion, the mention of sheep and goats is less than 1%. Even in the Torah.
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there are hundreds of rules and laws that talk about sheep and goats and so forth.
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2. Religion always incoroprates aspects of "social engineering" in that they are trying to develop a society with rules, boundaries, responsibilities, and even rights. Why is this a bad thing?
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because it pretends to be religion when its social engineering. The reality is, moses had to put together a civilization in a hurry,
and he used god as a pretext and a white lie to do it.
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3. Even if this were a flaw, why would it be fatal? How is Judaism any more sexist than every other religion?
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i didn't say it was more sexist than any other religion, just that its sexist. No comparisons were made and none were implied.
being sexist is its own problem. And its fatal, because no true god would put one gender in charge of the other (or, as judaism did, turn one gender into the legal property of another.)
Thus, the very fact of the sexism prooves that judaism wasn't created by God.
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Sexism is "prejudice or discrimination based on gender" which occurs even in our modern society.
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yes, but we are trying to get over it.
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Or do you use the ladies room when you're at the mall or theater?
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red herrring, irrelevant.
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And of course you are bisexual--because otherwise would be 'sexist.'
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red herring, nonsensical, irrelevant.
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Unsu...
Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Mon, November 13, 2006 - 1:11 PMthetruth.hypermart.net/bible/...ies.htm
Lo and behold....
EX 2:12 Moses murders an Egyptian.
EX 7:1, 14, 9:14-16, 10:1-2, 11:7 The purpose of the devastation that God brings to the Egyptians is as follows:
to show that he is Lord;
to show that there is none like him in all the earth;
to show his great power;
to cause his name to be declared throughout the earth;
to give the Israelites something to talk about with their children;
to show that he makes a distinction between Israel and Egypt.
EX 9:22-25 A plague of hail from the Lord strikes down everything in the fields of Egypt both man and beast except in Goshen where the Israelites reside.
EX 12:29 The Lord kills all the first-born in the land of Egypt.
EX 17:13 With the Lord's approval, Joshua mows down Amalek and his people.
EX 21:20-21 With the Lord's approval, a slave may be beaten to death with no punishment for the perpetrator as long as the slave doesn't die too quickly.
EX 32:27 "Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbor.
EX 32:27-29 With the Lord's approval, the Israelites slay 3000 men. -
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Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Mon, November 13, 2006 - 2:05 PMthanks, thats some good stuff, tho just a start if we are going to go per incident, things can get rather long that way...
these make good examples, but i'd think it makes more sense to work from the general to the specific. For instance,
God allegedly condoning murder,
God allegedly being an egotist murderer,
God allegedly condoning slavery,
God allegedly condoning murder by torture,
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Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Mon, November 13, 2006 - 2:05 PM
Your quotes lack context so let me offer a modern parallel...
Imagine: Your bestfriend, Bob, has been unjustly imprisoned in a foreign labor camp after contracting to the government of that country. So, you send a letter asking that government to let Bob go, but they refuse and increase Bob's work. So Bob begs them and threatens them and even does a few magic tricks to scare them. But these things only make the government mad. And, in a fit of rage, the head of the government tortures and castrates Bob. So you use everything in your power to get your good friend Bob out of that undeserved and immoral situation--even so far as killing representatives and military of that corrupt government. As a final sign of appreciation, you and Bob castrate the leader of that government just before leaving.
Admittedly, it isn't an exact parallel, but my point is that Moses, God, and the Hebrews did what was needed to teach a lesson to a corrupt administration (they couldn't vote in another party). Everyone knows that the God of the Old Testament is vicious, but it was a vicious world and survival often meant being vicious.
As with the Egyptian situation, your other examples are also taken out of cultural and historical context. If you think the acts of the Hebrews (one of many warring tribal communities in the "Middle East" at that time) are immoral, try the Romans, Greeks, Assyrians, Egyptians, et cetera. I'm not saying beating slaves or any of the other events in Exodus are necessarily "right", merely that it is futile to judge a culture 2500 years distant on modern values.
People 2500 years from now will look back at our world and be disgusted at what we call morality, culture, and civilization.
Feiruz -
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Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Mon, November 13, 2006 - 3:17 PMfeiruz, i could could in theory argue against your reasoning, but i'm not going to do that because i don't want to contribute to driving the thread off topic. Theres a complimentary thread that i would urge you to participate in regarding the gems of judaism.
Even in your example or parable, two wrongs don't make a right. In this case, its actually even more clear that the Jews started the genocidal killings, they were the ones who started the whole mess with the back and forth fighting over that batch of land.
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Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Wed, November 15, 2006 - 8:00 AMP: i don't want to contribute to driving the thread off topic
I have no problem with the topic, if you post factual, accureate examples--which you have failed to do.
P: its actually even more clear that the Jews started the genocidal killings, they were the ones who started the whole mess with the back and forth fighting over that batch of land.
You're ignoring the fact that even before Moses, even before Jacob, even before Abraham that area was a mess of warring tribes. Archeology, Anthropology, and the religious experts all agree on that.
I have one favor to ask of anyone posting: GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT.
That so hard?
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Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Mon, November 13, 2006 - 5:30 PM"People 2500 years from now will look back at our world and be disgusted at what we call morality, culture, and civilization. "
Indeed! Do you think it is strange that some folks derive their morality from people who lived 2500 years ago?
~K -
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Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Wed, November 15, 2006 - 8:07 AMK: Indeed! Do you think it is strange that some folks derive their morality from people who lived 2500 years ago?
No. The US government gets it base from the ancient Greeks. Mots of Europe has laws left over from the ancient Romans.
We all get our morality from a combination of ancient truths and modern context.
In fact, I challenge anyone to come up with a morality that is not based on anything currently in existence but especially does not reflect any of the ancient human values.
:)
Feiruz -
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Unsu...
Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Wed, November 15, 2006 - 8:18 AMWhat's strange is that people get their ideas of hygiene, earth science and the cosmos from people that lived 2500 years ago.
"In fact, I challenge anyone to come up with a morality that is not based on anything currently in existence but especially does not reflect any of the ancient human values. "
That doesn't make any sense. What is morality but human values, either past and/or present?
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Unsu...
Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Tue, November 14, 2006 - 8:35 AMAh,but the argument is that the bible and it's wisdom is timeless.
Christianity's foundation is the bible. And if the foundation is rotten... -
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Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Tue, November 14, 2006 - 1:03 PMAh,but the argument is that the bible and it's wisdom is timeless.
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thats an argument made by modern christians. look again at the title of the thread. we are talking about judaism.
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Christianity's foundation is the bible.
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yes and no, again, some would argue that tthe bible is explicitly in fact an antichristian document. created by the roman cathars.
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And if the foundation is rotten...
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the bible is the most corrupted and vile document on earth, perhaps equalled only by the koran.
Can we get back on topic now? -
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Unsu...
Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Wed, November 15, 2006 - 6:45 AMtsk tsk. First of all I was replying to Feruiz. Second, regardless, of which religion it is, any religion that venerates any part of the bible is open to it's contamination. -
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Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Wed, November 15, 2006 - 2:55 PMsk tsk. First of all I was replying to Feruiz. Second, regardless, of which religion it is, any religion that venerates any part of the bible is open to it's contamination.
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tsk tsk, this thread is about judaism, not christianity, and not the bible.
i agree that any religion that venerates any part of the bible is open to its conamination. Thankfully, Jews don't venerate any part of the bible. -
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Unsu...
Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Thu, November 16, 2006 - 6:57 AMUm. Old Testment IS the Torah.
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.Unsu...
Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Tue, November 21, 2006 - 6:07 PM>>>>Um. Old Testment IS the Torah. <<<<<
Technically, the Torah is the five books of Moses (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.)
The whole--what Protestants call the Old Testament--is called the Tanakh, being the Torah, the Writings, and the Prophets. All of the written Torah is in the Old Testament (as Christians call it.)
That is the written Torah. In Jewish tradition, there is an also an oral Torah, based on the teachings of Rabbis. This may be what Prom is thinking about. There are massive volumes of those writings, that grew through centuries.
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Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Tue, November 21, 2006 - 6:13 PMmy point which you also miss is that there are numerous difference between the tanakh and the old testament, the two are not identical they are different they are not the same. -
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Unsu...
Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Wed, November 22, 2006 - 6:40 AMSometimes, I just read what you write and laugh and laugh...
You just can't admit when you're wrong can you?
Eh, it doesn't matter. I don't think you care what my opinion is of you, and it can't get much lower anyway.
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Unsu...
Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Wed, November 22, 2006 - 10:33 AM -
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Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Wed, November 22, 2006 - 11:47 AMfrom your own materials;
"To Jews, there is no "Old Testament." The books that Christians call the New Testament are not part of Jewish scripture."
yes, its clear that you exist here just to be a noisy politico, while i haven't read it, your no judge of rediculous.
now, can we get this thread back on topic and off of your rediculous digression?
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Unsu...
Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Wed, November 22, 2006 - 4:07 PMFrom that same source. Don't know how you missed it:
"In its most limited sense, "Torah" refers to the Five Books of Moses: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. But the word "torah" can also be used to refer to the --->entire Jewish bible (the body of scripture known to non-Jews as the Old Testament <---- and to Jews as the Tanakh or Written Torah), or in its broadest sense, to the whole body of Jewish law and teachings. "
Don't bite too hard on that foot of yours. -
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Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Wed, November 22, 2006 - 4:11 PMIn its most limited sense
maybe you missed the qualifier. heres it again in case you still have cognitive dissonance.
In its most limited sense In its most liIn it In its most limited senses most limited sense limited sense In its most limited sense In its most limited sense In its most limited senseIn its most liIn itIn its most limited senses most limited sensemited sense...
and, what part of book x is not equal to book y because book y is actually historically precedent to book x and book x is just a batch of propaganda don't you understand?
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Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Wed, November 22, 2006 - 4:15 PMYour original statement:
"Thankfully, Jews don't venerate any part of the bible. "
When in fact, they do. The Old Testament.
(deep bow)
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no, you totally exaspertaing ignorant fool.
jews venerate the tanakh. Which is not equal to the old testament since the old testament is the propaganda roman version of the text and is replete with all sorts of changes.
OLD testament of what? "Jesus."
old testament = christianianity.
tanakh = judaism.
The two books are not the same,
you are the one whos really seriously demonstrating that they are incapable of seeing basic sense.
i give up with you and won't respond any further to this inane line of reasoning. If you think that the tanakh and the old testament are co-equal, go hang out in israel and try to convince them that the two are the same and see how fast you get yourself lynched. -
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Unsu...
Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Thu, November 23, 2006 - 10:13 AMFunny, the rabbi I just asked laughed when I told him about you. He wants to know a) if you're jewish, and b) if you've ever read the torah. -
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Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Tue, January 23, 2007 - 4:55 PMThey believe in god.
What more do you need?
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a rational cogent argument ased in rational ethics and psychology and sociology
indicting judaism for specific faults and leading to an exploration of fixes. -
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Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Fri, January 26, 2007 - 4:02 PMThey believe in god.
They should stop believing in god. -
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Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Fri, January 26, 2007 - 4:29 PMyes, belief in god is only a way to not experience whats real.
but, reality has in it something a lot like "god".
you can experience that only if you can use logic and reason and trance technologies to open
up to hypersanity.
Quantum fractal scalar holomorphics render that there is a connection between all things
in the universe. Its not exactly what religion calls "god". Its more impersonal. Its a force of nature.
It has no gender. It has no agenda. It doesn't care about us. Its not offended or non plussed about us.
It is simply the emergent property of consciousness as that happens via chaos and order as imprinting
on the universe via the main algorythms of physical and subtle laws.
Now that you have taken us off topic from judaism, and made me give you actual reality rather than
judaism, ONCE AGAIN, DO YOU HAVE THE BRAINS TO STAY ON TOPIC?
IF NO, THEN QUIT POSTING TO MY THREADS. -
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Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Sat, January 27, 2007 - 4:58 AMBlah, blah, more nonsense, invocation of quantum and yet more new-age piffle.
You need to decide whether you're talking about god, or whether you're talking about impersonal 'random' natural forces, in which case you need to drop the supernaturalist baggage, stop using the new-age misuse and misunderstanding of terms and start over.
Oh wait, you're assigning conciousness, even if disinterested, to the universe. There's your problem.
Back to Judaism and, as I said, their flaw.
They believe in god.
They should stop believing in god. -
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Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Sat, January 27, 2007 - 10:39 PMBlah, blah, more nonsense, invocation of quantum and yet more new-age piffle.
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no, your a trolling fucktard.
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You need to decide whether you're talking about god, or whether you're talking about impersonal 'random' natural forces, in which case you need to drop the supernaturalist baggage, stop using the new-age misuse and misunderstanding of terms and start over.
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I'll use the language the humans use, because the topic is beyond most peoples comprehension; including apparently, yours.
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Oh wait, you're assigning conciousness, even if disinterested, to the universe. There's your problem.
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your failing to know that it is self aware; thats your problem.
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Back to Judaism and, as I said, their flaw.
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okay, lets adress whats supposedly on topic.
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They believe in god.
They should stop believing in god.
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Assuming for a base axiom that god does not exist, your point is still useless. We are looking for logical rational proofs of flawed
reasoning. That they believe in god is immaterial; many people believe in god or disbeleive in god; which is actually by pure logic exactly
the same damn thing. quality x for universe; yes answer means only beleif in x value at 1 and no anwer means only quality for vlaue at 0.
Both are beliefs hedged in a quality for that value.
To be more exacting, since you fail to follow the logic, a fatal flaw in a system is one which creates entropy in the system that cannot
be countered. For instance, the belief in ownership of women as chattle, and the way thats fucked up sexual opression for two thousand
years.
A fatal flaw must be relevant to a social, ethical, psychological, or civil system interest or process. A fatal flaw destroys a system.
Beleif in (not) god is irrelevant to the social engineering, and how that failed or succeeded. It is irrelevant to the sucess of the morality system, and it is irelevant to the success of the economics and civil and governmental infrastructures as they manifest decay.
In short, your campaign against beleif is trolling, its irrelevant, and its off topic. To put a qualifier on this conversation which should
have been obvious to anybody; The starting axiom of this thread is that Judaism is a system with flaws which can nonetheless be fixed.
The system has good things in it, which are worth keeping and adopting into an eclectic meta system.
If you cannot understand that, you are being either intentionally shrill, or just plain stupid.
The grounds for impeachment of the system must be consistant with the logic internal to its true base assumptions. The argument here
is grounded in the assumption that god does exist, and that Judaism made errors which can be described by knowing what things should
have been like instead.
Your argument is weakest because belief is all you have that god does not exist; and that is all that formal logic affords you.
Science actually supports the idea of a subtle reality; no matter which branch you get into.
Judaism was an early metaphysical attempt to describe something that is real. Our task is to determine what that was, not play with
nihilism like a serated vibrator. -
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Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Sun, January 28, 2007 - 3:23 AMNo, you're a messed up pseudo-new-age nonsense ranter misusing flawed understanding of legitimate science to fulfill your special needs.
Anyway, on we go...
'The humans'? That's a little telling.
Demonstrate the self-awareness of the universe and we'll talk, until then you might as well be a scientologist.
You say...
"We are looking for logical rational proofs of flawed reasoning. That they believe in god is immaterial; many people believe in god or disbeleive in god; which is actually by pure logic exactly the same damn thing. quality x for universe; yes answer means only beleif in x value at 1 and no anwer means only quality for vlaue at 0. Both are beliefs hedged in a quality for that value."
The belief in god IS flawed reasoning from which everything else flows. No god then there is no divine law, their vision of creation is wrong and so on and so forth. The existence or non existence of god is fundamental to the whole system and since it is unevidenced and, indeed, in all the Abrahamic faiths contradicted and disproven (as preserved in their sacred texts) there's the problem right there. With Judaism you can extend the problem into very stark real world problems, their belief that the Messiah is yet to come is a prime cause for much of their persecution over the years and the belief that they are owed Israel and promised it is a massive cause of multigenerational conflict in the middle east. All predicated upon their belief in god.
The example you give of the belief in ownership of women, that is a religious flaw in many faiths perpetuated by their transmitted dogma and beliefs which derive from a belief in god - the fatal central flaw.
There are, perhaps, some good qualities in all of these faiths IF you can seperate the wheat from the chaff but the fatal flaw will continue to be passed on until you seperate them from god and judge and adapt them based upon your own conscience and not divine authority. In order to do that properly one must excise god. -
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Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Mon, January 29, 2007 - 9:16 PM
The belief in god IS flawed reasoning from which everything else flows.
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Even if true, it can't be prooved via formal logic because "Beleif" has ZERO TRUTH VALUE.
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No god then there is no divine law, their vision of creation is wrong and so on and so forth.
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The question is what makes the religion fall apart as a social organizer. In theory, somebody could generate a good god and then believing in it would be merely dumb and not actually harmful to the world.
The idea that there is no divine law also cannot be rationally prooved, ,and in fact the reverse; all a good arguer would have to
do is invoke the fractal scalar mathematics of the universe to show that there is a set of rules operating in the universe constantly
and point out that science actually doesn't have a good explanation for a large variety of cosmological constants.
Since i agree with you that there is no "divine law" but would argue from the other side that there are SUBTLE LAWS which
may appear invisible to the normal 5 senses, the problem here again is that your argument is from the universal rather than
the particular. You can't fault them for doing something every body does. The question is how their version ends up responsible
for exactly the pain and strife it was supposed to represent.
We are trying to look for CAUSE AND EFFECT here, not anything as simple as ASSIGNATION OF BLAME.
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The existence or non existence of god is fundamental to the whole system and since it is unevidenced and,
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i suggest to you that the existence or non existence of god is a pre-occupation of yours personally, and is not really
that relevant to this thread. If god exists, god isn't Jewish, that is the logic that should suffice here.
Basing a argument against a religion based on the fact that it is a belief system is a hopeless endeavor. The question must
be what the religion is responsible for and how its behaviors played out over time. Actions speak louder than dogmas.
By their fruits shall ye know them.
The jewish culture and society is dystopic. Thats the crux of the matter; how their society and culture fails because of their
beliefs.
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indeed, in all the Abrahamic faiths contradicted and disproven (as preserved in their sacred texts) there's the problem right there. With Judaism you can extend the problem into very stark real world problems, their belief that the Messiah is yet to come is a prime cause for much of their persecution over the years and the belief that they are owed Israel and promised it is a massive cause of multigenerational conflict in the middle east. All predicated upon their belief in god.
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if you'd elaborate on the psychology of the messiah effect and how that ties into justification for unethical behavior, you'd have something
sunbstantial there.
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The example you give of the belief in ownership of women, that is a religious flaw in many faiths perpetuated by their transmitted dogma and beliefs which derive from a belief in god - the fatal central flaw.
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The example i give doesn't rest on an axiom which has no derivable truth value in formal logic. We can show that women being chattel slaves and being sold and bought like cattle is wrong and harmful from very easy base axioms that everybody sane can agree on.
We can show how even though they corrected it, it created a psychological wound in culture that carried all the way into the present
and into the current forms of sexual opressions and manifestations of sexual perversity.
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There are, perhaps, some good qualities in all of these faiths IF you can seperate the wheat from the chaff
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Thats the problem of doing this honestly, ,and that is what you must do if you are going to convince anybody that you aren't just full
of piss and vinegar. Attacking the old system is ludicrous unless you show how you would preserve what is good of it and integrate
that into a lucid ecelctic system that serves human needs and psychology.
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but the fatal flaw will continue to be passed on until you seperate them from god and judge and adapt them based upon your own conscience and not divine authority. In order to do that properly one must excise god.
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Let me give you your first real clue. Thats impossible. You can't convince people there is no god when there is a real
phenomenon that very approximately fits the bill. You simply cannot succeed because everybody knows theres something more
out there. What you can do is offer a lucid exploration of that which isn't steeped in political and economic evil. -
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Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Tue, January 30, 2007 - 4:03 PM"Let me give you your first real clue. Thats impossible. You can't convince people there is no god when there is a real
phenomenon that very approximately fits the bill. You simply cannot succeed because everybody knows theres something more
out there."
It isn't.
You can.
There isn't.
No, they don't, they believe it. -
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Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Tue, January 30, 2007 - 4:25 PM"Let me give you your first real clue. Thats impossible. You can't convince people there is no god when there is a real
phenomenon that very approximately fits the bill. You simply cannot succeed because everybody knows theres something more
out there."
It isn't.
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you don't know that and you can't proove it. Take your big fat stinking turd of MORE atheist shit off of my thread.
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You can.
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Your doing a great job of it. Anybody convinced to give up being christian because of grim? i didn't think so.
its a fruitless and moronic and franbkly patently evil argument thats got zero chance of gaining any traction. Ever.
Its a no count argument on a dozen different grounds of formal logic. You have only your faith to say that god doesn't
exist. Thats it. Science does not support you. Logic does not support you. You have a contention which is YOUR BELEIF.
Thats all you have.
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There isn't.
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according to you. Take your turds and quit posting on my threads, you moron.
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No, they don't, they believe it.
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No, they experience things that encourage them to have those beliefs.
Just because you don't only prooves your an idiot asshat.
You clogged your system carrying that cross you bear that they gave to you;
Your a black pawn fighting the battle that serves their purpose. You are the anti hero they need to make it look like
the whole damn argument is framed between christians and atheists. You are neck deep in shit and as much as you
think you know better than christianity, it has its hand up your ass and you are its dark puppet.
why do you have to be an evil fucking fucktard and drive my threads off topic to boot? -
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new title. GRim is a fucktard
Tue, January 30, 2007 - 4:26 PMi hereby donate this thread to the fucktard troll whos driven it to become noise instead of on topic.
have fun with it grim. -
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Re: new title. GRim is a fucktard
Sat, July 12, 2008 - 1:26 PMThis thread is fucking rad. I guess there is not much more to say. Seeing as how I don't give a shit.
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Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Tue, January 30, 2007 - 4:55 PM"No, they experience things that encourage them to have those beliefs."
No, they have beliefs that encourage them to interpret experiences certain ways.
Why do you start garbage threads and then complain? -
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grim is a fucktard asshole troll.
Tue, January 30, 2007 - 10:46 PMfuck off you asshole troll. i start perfectly good threads, you are the garbage spewing troll fucktard. As if you
are any kind of judge as to whats garbage. -
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Re: grim is a fucktard asshole troll.
Wed, January 31, 2007 - 3:30 AMWell, by your own words you claim that I spew garbage. If that were true wouldn't I be an expert in the matter and thus in a very good position to judge? -
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Re: grim is a fucktard asshole troll.
Wed, January 31, 2007 - 1:38 PMby that reasoning, a sewer rat should be an expert in sewage biochemistry.
as usual, your attempt to rub a few brain cells together is less than inspiring. -
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Re: grim is a fucktard asshole troll.
Wed, January 31, 2007 - 2:33 PMNo, but they'd be an expert in sewage. -
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Re: grim is a fucktard asshole troll.
Wed, January 31, 2007 - 9:28 PMright, now whos anthropomorphizing. Their RATS. They can't be an EXPERT in anything.
they have no brains to think about the sewage.
just like you. -
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Re: grim is a fucktard asshole troll.
Thu, February 1, 2007 - 3:35 AMExpert in the same sense as an expert system. Not actually intelligent or knowledgable per se but programmed by instinct and survival over generations.
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Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Wed, November 22, 2006 - 11:44 AMYou just can't admit when you're wrong can you?
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actually, i have no problem admitting error when theres one to admit.
Tanakh is NOT the same as the old testament, thats like calling an original work of art and
the graffittied version the same thing. They are distinct in historical eras, they are distinct in terms of cultures and origin points, they are distinct in terms of the purpose and function of the authors. They are distinct in literally thousands of specific ways and they are distinct in close to a full percent of the actual wording.
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Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Wed, November 22, 2006 - 12:47 PM
Aa comparison of books in Tanakh and Old Testament (differences in specific lines, words, phrases, and divisions are not included):
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book..._Testament -
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Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Wed, November 22, 2006 - 1:41 PMthanks feiruz, thats very informative.
:)
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Unsu...
Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Wed, November 22, 2006 - 4:04 PMYour original statement:
"Thankfully, Jews don't venerate any part of the bible. "
When in fact, they do. The Old Testament.
(deep bow)
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Unsu...
Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Thu, November 16, 2006 - 7:29 AMI'm still laughing at this.
"Thankfully, Jews don't venerate any part of the bible. " -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Thu, November 16, 2006 - 3:11 PMlaugh away. The old testament is BASED on the torah, the two are far from identical.
again, you prove only that you are ignorant and too ignorant to be here making any kind of argument.
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Unsu...
Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Fri, November 17, 2006 - 6:39 AMStop, you're killing me!
"The five books and their names and pronunciations in original Hebrew are as follows:
* Genesis (בראשית, Bereshit: "In the beginning...")
* Exodus (שמות, Shemot: "Names")
* Leviticus (ויקרא, Vayyiqra: "And he called...")
* Numbers (במדבר, Bammidbar: "In the desert..."), and
* Deuteronomy (דברים, Devarim: "Words", or "Discourses")
"
I see you know as much about religion as you do about science... -
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Unsu...
Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Fri, November 17, 2006 - 7:00 AM"To‧rah /ˈtoʊrə, ˈtɔrə; Seph. Heb. toʊˈrɑ; Ashk. Heb. ˈtoʊrə, ˈtɔɪrə/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[toh-ruh, tawr-uh; Seph. Heb. toh-rah; Ashk. Heb. toh-ruh, toi-ruh] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun (sometimes lowercase) 1. the Pentateuch, being the first of the three Jewish divisions of the Old Testament. Compare Tanach.
2. a parchment scroll on which the Pentateuch is written, used in synagogue services.
3. the entire body of Jewish religious literature, law, and teaching as contained chiefly in the Old Testament and the Talmud.
4. law or instruction.
"
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Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Tue, November 21, 2006 - 5:40 PMno, you are killing me. The old testament and the torah are similar, but one is based on the other and is a clearly political propaganda version.
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Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Wed, November 15, 2006 - 7:57 AMYes, the wisdom is timeless. But no rabbi would say that the entirety is timeless--that's the christian fundamentalists' argument. Just as an example of this misinformation, around half of the 613 laws cannot be conducted (either improperly or at all) due to the fact that there is no Holy Temple. If the entirely of Judaism did not evolve, why are there many hundreds of texts clarifying, explaining, expanding, and even quesitoning the Torah?
The foundation of the bible is the same foundation as most of modern law. The bible itself is a document guilty only of the perversions conducted in its name by sick people.
If you accept those perversions as truth, you, too, are sick.
:)
Feiruz, who respects the intent of both the Torah and the Quran (as well as other holy books) -
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Unsu...
Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Wed, November 15, 2006 - 8:14 AMAnd this rabbi, what is the method he has for determining which parts are timeless. Rabbis are the ones with all the rules about what kind of food to eat right, and who not to touch during which "monthly" cycle?
"If the entirely of Judaism did not evolve, why are there many hundreds of texts clarifying, explaining, expanding, and even quesitoning the Torah? "
If you're a potato farmer, it's in your best interest to come up with new recipes all the time.
"The foundation of the bible is the same foundation as most of modern law. "
And what would that be? Greek history?
"The bible itself is a document guilty only of the perversions conducted in its name by sick people. "
Actually, taken at face value, the bible is far more sick than even it's modern followers.
Should I dust off my trusty lists again?
thetruth.hypermart.net/bible/...ies.htm
home.teleport.com/~packham/...#JESUSLAWS
www.evilbible.com/Murder.htm
Before you reply:
1. I've heard the "imperfect translation" argument and it doesn't fly. The atrocities in the bible simply can't be explained away by claiming a vague translation. The word for "slaughter" doesn't resemble the one for "hug".
2. If ANYTHING in the bible is flat out wrong or NOT the direct word of god, then one must accept that the WHOLE thing might be a load of crap as well.
EVERY christian MUST accept the possibility that the bible is the complete, inerrant and perfect word of god.
Anyone who says that "parts" of the bible are not the above negates that principle. Because there is simply no objective way to tell which are "truly" god's words, and which are the words of ignorant barbarians.
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Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Wed, November 15, 2006 - 2:58 PMYes, the wisdom is timeless.
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show me the wisdom, and we will decide if its timeless.
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The foundation of the bible is the same foundation as most of modern law.
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cause and effect (duh) morality in the modern era is based on the bible in western civilization.
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The bible itself is a document guilty only of the perversions conducted in its name by sick people.
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no, the bible itself was written by sick people. For instance, Paul.
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Torah and the Quran (as well as other holy books)
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theres nothing holy about those books.
reply to this post
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Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Wed, November 22, 2006 - 10:46 PMThey believe in god.
What more do you need? -
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Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Sun, June 29, 2008 - 9:45 PMAnd what do you propose?
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Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Thu, February 1, 2007 - 3:42 AMGenesis (בראשית, Bereshit: "In the beginning...")
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Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Thu, February 1, 2007 - 3:44 AM"The Chosen People"--if everyone was created by G-d, then... well... why choose one group? And one that turns their back on G-d in every other book in the Book? -
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Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Thu, February 1, 2007 - 4:33 PMThe Chosen People"--if everyone was created by G-d, then... well... why choose one group? And one that turns their back on G-d in every other book in the Book?
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anthropology calls that the ethnocentrism principle.
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Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Thu, February 1, 2007 - 4:58 PM... and so would anyone... especially if you weren't part of the belief system in question. :)
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Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Fri, February 2, 2007 - 2:50 AMAnd that roots in their belief in god.
'We get it, we understand god, therefore we're special and he shows us special favour' -
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Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Sun, February 4, 2007 - 4:24 PMand so would anyone... especially if you weren't part of the belief system in question. :)
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the ethnocentric principle manifests in all cultures in different ways. it is a bad bug, nature gave it to us,
its the law of the jungle in our genes.
the question here is fixed on how that plays out inside of the religious paradigm, and how that both
indicts the paradigm and at the same time shows us a pattern which we can thus hope to learn
from and overcome of building bad patterns.
its too bad this conversation is happening piled on top of grims trolling.
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Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Thu, February 1, 2007 - 3:49 AMBorn Again Christians think they're really "nifty," but in a strange and under-handed sort of way...
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Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Sun, February 4, 2007 - 5:49 PM4 days ago... did I kill Judaism?
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Re: 1001 fatal flaws of Judaism
Sun, June 29, 2008 - 9:43 PMMoses was too severe towards his sister, apparently so. I should say I am not convinced with the story in which Aaron is pardoned for the same offense as Myriam.