The Number of the Beast

topic posted Tue, May 13, 2008 - 3:40 AM by  Schirin
An explanation of Revelations, a prophetic vision of John, in between the actual verses in [brackets]. Similar visions were given to Daniel, and interpreted in the book of Daniel, which explain some of the imagery used in Revelations.

Chapter 13: The Beast out of the Sea

And I saw a beast [the system of government that has been put into place by Satan for 5,000 years, for the purpose of setting himself up on a political throne] coming out of the sea. He had ten horns and seven heads* with ten crowns on his horns, and on each head a blasphemous name. The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority. One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was astonished and followed the beast. Men worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked, "Who is like the beast? Who can make war against him?"

*Seven heads are explained in Revelations 17: This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. They are also seven kings. Five have fallen [Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Mede-Persia, Greece], one is [Rome], the other has not yet come [British empire-WWI 1945]; but when he does come, he must remain for a little while. The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king [the United Nations]. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.

Continuation of Chapter 13:

The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise his authority for forty-two months. He opened his mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them. And he was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world. He who has an ear, let him hear. If anyone is to go into captivity, into captivity he will go. If anyone is to be killed with the sword, with the sword he will be killed. This calls for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of the saints.

The Beast out of the Earth

Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two horns [Daniel 8:20—horns represent kings] like a lamb [Christ-like external veneer], but he spoke like a dragon [immense legal power]. He exercised all the authority of the first beast on his behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men [POWER #1—military high technology]. Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he deceived the inhabitants of the earth. He ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed [POWER #2—the word used for image is “icon/likeness” not an idol. This is not animate life, but “spiritual” life. Televisions and computers are systems that have spiritual life, bypassing the rational, going into the spirit and shaping it]. He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark**, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name [POWER #3—change of our money system, has been in the works since the 1950’s when it came into being with bar code systems.].

This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666. [the number of the SYSTEM not a person. It is the barcode system. On ALL barcodes the first/starting bar, center/separator bar, and end/stop bar resemble the coded bar for the number 6. Effectively, all numbers in between 6/start, 6/center, and 6/end bars are read. This has paved the way for future methods for marking humans to prevent those who do not accept this future government system from buying and selling**]

**Taken directly from the US Patent and Trademark Office database myself:

United States Patent 5,878,155
Heeter March 2, 1999
________________________________________
Method for verifying human identity during electronic sale transactions

Abstract
A method is presented for facilitating sales transactions by electronic media. A bar code or a design is tattooed on an individual. Before the sales transaction can be consummated, the tattoo is scanned with a scanner. Characteristics about the scanned tattoo are compared to characteristics about other tattoos stored on a computer database in order to verify the identity of the buyer. Once verified, the seller may be authorized to debit the buyer's electronic bank account in order to consummate the transaction. The seller's electronic bank account may be similarly updated.
________________________________________
Inventors: Heeter; Thomas W. (Houston, TX)
Appl. No.: 08/709,471
Filed: September 5, 1996
________________________________________
Current U.S. Class: 382/115
________________________________________
Claims
________________________________________

What is claimed is:

1. A method of human identification to facilitate electronic sale transactions comprising the steps of:

providing identity information about a purchaser on a storage medium,

providing skin marking invisible ink,

applying said invisible ink to an appendage of said purchaser to form a tattoo on said purchaser,

storing characteristics about said tattoo on said storage medium to form stored characteristics about said tattoo, and

linking said identity information about said purchaser to said stored characteristics about said tattoo.

2. A method of human identification as in claim 1 further comprising the steps of:

providing financial information about said purchaser on said storage medium, and

linking said financial information about said purchaser to said identity information about said purchaser.

3. A method of human identification as in claim 1 further comprising the steps of:

providing financial information about said purchaser on said storage medium, and

linking said financial information about said purchaser to said stored characteristics about said tattoo.

4. A method of human identification as in claim 2 further comprising the steps of:

scanning said tattoo on said purchaser with a scanning device to obtain scanned characteristics of said tattoo on said purchaser,

comparing said scanned characteristics to characteristics about other tattoos found on said storage medium in order to determine if said scanned characteristics match said stored characteristics about said tattoo on said purchaser stored on said storage medium, and

only if said scanned characteristics match said stored characteristics then providing said linked identity information in order to verify the identity of said purchaser.

5. A method of human identification as in claim 4 further comprising the step of:

only if said scanned characteristics match said stored characteristics then providing said linked financial information in order to verify that said purchaser has sufficient funds to consummate a sales transaction.

6. A method of human identification as in claim 5 further comprising the step of:

only upon verification that said purchaser has sufficient funds to consummate said sales transaction then modifying said stored financial information about said purchaser to reflect a consummated sales transaction.

7. A method of human identification as in claim 3 further comprising the steps of:

scanning said tattoo on said purchaser with a scanning device to obtain scanned characteristics about said tattoo,

comparing said scanned characteristics to characteristics about tattoos stored found on said storage medium in order to determine if said scanned characteristics match said stored characteristics of said tattoo on said purchaser stored on said storage medium, and

only if said scanned characteristics match said stored characteristics then providing said linked financial information in order to verify that said purchaser has sufficient funds to consummate a sales transaction.

8. A method of human identification as in claim 7 further comprising the step of:

only upon verification that said purchaser has sufficient funds to consummate said sales transaction then modifying said stored financial information about said purchaser to reflect a consummated sales transaction.

9. A method of human identification as in claim 5 further comprising the steps of:

providing financial information about a seller on said storage medium, and

only upon verification that said purchaser has sufficient funds to consummate said sales transaction then modifying said stored financial information about said seller to reflect a consummated sales transaction.

10. A method of human identification as in claim 7 further comprising the steps of:

providing financial information about a seller on said storage medium, and

only upon verification that said purchaser has sufficient funds to consummate said sales transaction then modifying said stored financial information about said seller to reflect a consummated sales transaction.
________________________________________
Description
________________________________________


BACKGROUND OF THE INVENTION

1. Field of the Invention

The present invention relates to the identification of humans. More particularly, the present invention relates to the application of invisible, indelible tattoos on humans for purposes of identification in order to conduct monetary and credit transactions in a secure manner.

2. Description of the Related Art

The advent of computer networks, particularly computer networks owned by financial institutions, has created the ability to conduct point-sale transactions in unforseen ways. While credit cards have been in use for many years, new forms of cards are appearing that take the place of paper money. This new form of cash, commonly called "e-money," is placed onto a card with a magnetic strip, much like a credit card. Unfortunately, as with credit cards, e-money can be stolen. However, unlike credit cards, e-money can be used by the thief with relative impunity because e-money, as with regular cash, is not registered as "owned" by anyone.

In order to facilitate the identification of humans, governments have issued cards and papers with the names and photographs of the person to which the card or paper is issued. An example of such a card or paper is the common drivers license or passport. However, as with credit cards and e-money, the drivers license or passport can be lost or stolen. In addition, phoney identification cards can be made by unscrupulous individuals. There are, however, systems for verifying use of a credit or identification card. Such a system is described in U.S. Pat. No. 5,513,272 to Bogosian, herein incorporated by reference for all purposes. The Bogosian system uses fingerprint and voice print matching to verify the identity of the card holder. Unfortunately, this dual matching is subject to problems, particularly when the card holder has a cold or other respiratory infection that affects speech patterns.

There have been other methods to permanently identify humans. During the holocaust, the Nazis tattooed the arms of Jews with a unique identifying number. On an episode of the "X-FILES," a fictional television program on the FOX television network, a human was abducted by aliens who conducted experiments on the abductee. In order to permanently tag the abductee, the aliens etched a unique bar code onto one of the abductee's teeth. Neither of these methods is practical for marking humans for electronic sale transaction purposes. First, social conscience dictates that any permanent marking of humans not be conspicuous, such as a visible numbering on an arm like the holocaust victims. Second, the bar code must be long enough, large enough, and accessible enough to make the transaction efficient. Thus bar codes on teeth would not be practical because of the limited size of the teeth and the embarrassment caused by sales personnel placing scanning equipment in a customer's mouth.

There is, therefore, a need in the art for verifying the identity of humans by electronic means that facilitates the transaction of sales, particularly e-money, through computer networks. It is an object of the present invention to overcome problems in the prior art.

SUMMARY OF THE INVENTION

The present invention solves the problems inherent in the prior art. A unique bar code or a unique design is tattooed with invisible ink on an individual. The tattoo can be either temporary or permanent and can be on any convenient portion of the person's anatomy, preferably the forearm. When the individual desires to make a sales transaction, the tattoo is scanned with a scanner. Characteristics about the tattoo are then compared to characteristics about other tattoos stored on a computer database. If the scanned characteristics match those on the database, then the person is identified and the seller will be authorized to debit the buyer's electronic bank account (assuming the buyer has sufficient funds). Unlike credit cards or identity papers, a tattoo cannot be easily lost or stolen.

BRIEF DESCRIPTION OF THE DRAWINGS

FIG. 1 shows a tattoo on a human forearm of the identification system of the present invention,

FIG. 2 shows a scanner scanning a tattoo of the identification system of the present invention,

FIG. 3 shows a computer network of the identification system of the present invention, and

FIG. 4 is a flowchart illustrating a method of operation of the present invention.

DESCRIPTION OF THE PREFERRED EMBODIMENT

As shown in FIG. 1, a tattoo 20 is applied to an appendage 30 of the wearer 15. In the preferred embodiment, an invisible, indelible ink would be used. A suitable ink would be "INVISIBLE SKIN MARKING INK #743" which is manufactured by Sirchie Finger Print Laboratories, 100 Hunter Place, Youngsville, N.C.

The tattoo 20 itself can be of any convenient shape or size. The invention works best when the tattoo is unique because no other means of identification are necessary. Although an invisible ink could be used, the invention would work equally well with a tattoo that is visible to the human eye.

In such an instance, a decorative design tattoo may be preferred by the wearer 15. Although in the preferred embodiment the tattoo 20 is permanent, the invention would work equally well with a temporary tattoo that made with removable ink. Furthermore, if the individual 15 does not wish to wear the tattoo 20, he or she may have the design or bar code placed on another medium, such as the skin adhesive material used for securing EKG leads. Suitable skin adhesive material is made by the Bard Parker Company. The tattoo 20 is placed on the skin adhesive material which, in turn, is placed on the wearer 15.

Aside from tattoos, the present invention also comprises a computer network 100 as shown in FIG. 3. Tattoo 20 characteristics are stored with the wearer's name, address, etc. in the identity database 50. Financial information about the wearer 15 is stored in a financial information database 60 that is part of the network 100. If necessary, the characteristics of the tattoo 20 can be combined with the financial information in the financial database 60, eliminating the need for a separate identity database 50 and allow the wearer 15 to remain anonymous during a commercial transaction. A suitable storage medium for the identity database 50 and the financial database 60 is a common tape drive or a hard disk drive. One or more scanners 40, and one or more central processing units (CPU) 80 are also attached to the network 100. The CPU 80 is used to compare scanned tattoo 20 characteristics with the tattoo 20 characteristics stored in the identity database 50. A suitable CPU is a microprocessor such as the "PENTIUM" made by Intel Corporation. If the tattoo 20 is visible to the naked eye, then any common scanner is suitable for the present invention. If invisible ink is used for the tattoo 20, then a scanner capable of emitting Type A ultraviolet light (UV-A) must be used. Under UV-A, the "invisible" tattoo appears as a brilliant white with human skin appearing as dark, providing a useful contrast for scanning purposes. However, standard scanners are designed to detect dark markings on a light background. For the scanner to read a "negative" bar-code, outside light must be minimized. Fortunately, these low-light conditions can be obtained easily by using an opaque covering on the scanning device.

The characteristics of the tattoo 20 can be combined with the wearer's fingerprint characteristics as well as the wearer's name, address, social security number, and any other desired information and stored on the identity database 50 as shown in FIG. 3. The name of the wearer/purchaser's financial institution, as well as current account information, are stored in the financial database 60. Once the wearer 15 has deposited sufficient funds with the financial institution, and once the identity database 50 and the financial database 60 are updated, the wearer 15 is able to conduct electronic sales transactions. After a tattoo 20 has been placed onto an appendage 30 of the wearer 15 as shown in FIG. 1, the wearer 15 is ready to practice the present invention.

All of the scanners 40, CPUs 80, as well as the identity database 50 and financial database 60 are linked together by a common databus 70 to form the network 100 as shown in FIG. 3.

The preferred method of operation, as shown in FIG. 4, is as follows:

In step 200 of FIG. 4, the purchaser selects an item for sale and initiates the sales transaction. In step 210, after the purchaser has made his/her selection, the seller's agent first scans the bar code on the article being sold in order to load information about the article and the seller for inventory and cost purposes. Next, in step 220, the tattoo 20 is scanned by scanner 40 as shown in FIG. 2. If additional identification is deemed necessary, the wearer's fingerprints may also be scanned. In step 230 of FIG. 4, the scanner 40 digitizes the image of the tattoo 20 and the purchase-cost/seller-identity information.

The scanned characteristics about the tattoo 20 and the purchase/seller information are is sent (or in computer parlance "written") from the scanner 40 to the CPU 80 via network databus 70 as shown in step 240 of FIG. 4. The CPU 80 then searches the identity database 50 for stored characteristics about tattoos in step 270. In step 250, the CPU accesses the stored characteristics of tattoos found in the identity database 50 and then compares them to the scanned characteristics of the tattoo 20. In step 260, it is determined whether or not the scanned characteristics match the stored characteristics stored in the identity database 50. If a match does not occur, step 270 and step 250 are repeated until a match is found or the scanned characteristics have been compared to all of the available stored characteristics in the identity database 50. If a match is never found, the sales transaction can be canceled. However, if a match is found, the identity of the wearer 15 can be provided to the seller because the purchaser's identity is linked to the stored characteristics of the tattoo 20 stored in the identity database 50 as shown in step 280 of FIG. 4. The seller, or, in the alternative, the simple matching and consequent identity verification, can trigger CPU 80 to query the financial database 60 to determine if the wearer 15 has sufficient funds to consummate the sales transaction as shown in step 290 of FIG. 4. If the data in the financial database 60 confirms that the wearer 15 has sufficient funds (step 300), then the sales transaction can be consummated. If the purchaser does not have sufficient funds, the seller can be so notified in step 310. Once the sale is consummated, the CPU 80 can be instructed to modify the wearer's 15 account information in the financial database 60 to reflect the results of the sales transaction as shown in step 320 of FIG. 4. Finally, the seller's account information on the financial database 60 can also be modified to reflect the results of the sales transaction as shown in step 330 of FIG. 4.

The forgoing is a description of the arrangement and the operation of an embodiment of the present invention. The scope of the present invention is considered to include the described embodiment together with others obvious to those skilled in the art.
posted by:
Schirin
Los Angeles
  • Re: The Number of the Beast

    Tue, May 13, 2008 - 4:07 AM
    Welcome to crazyland, population - far too many.
    • Re: The Number of the Beast

      Tue, May 13, 2008 - 4:21 AM
      If you're going to say something, Grim, add to the discussion in a positive manner. All you're doing is being nasty and attaching an individual, me, for no reason. This is taken straight from the Bible, so it's not crazy to discuss.
      • Re: The Number of the Beast

        Tue, May 13, 2008 - 4:21 AM
        ...*attacking* an individual...
        • Re: The Number of the Beast

          Tue, May 13, 2008 - 5:00 AM
          While this is a matter of discussion Shirin
          It is still entirely dependent on Biblical Scipture wich in reality,is simply "Text from an Ancient Book".
          Where is this BEAST this Fanciful "Old Book" speaks of?
          Has anyone in the real World seen it,heard it,or been attacked by it?
          How can we as non-Christians be ceartain of it's existence?
          • Re: The Number of the Beast

            Tue, May 13, 2008 - 7:22 AM
            Jake, did you read what was written above? If you did, you would see that the BEAST is not a PERSON, but a governmental SYSTEM. You can be sure of its existence, because it has been prophesied that there will be one world order, which we already see happening with the United Nations.
            • Re: The Number of the Beast

              Tue, May 13, 2008 - 9:04 AM
              "...there will be one world order, which we already see happening with the United Nations."

              There are problems which concern everyone. We have to have some means of working together.





              • Re: The Number of the Beast

                Tue, May 13, 2008 - 1:54 PM
                Anyone who associates the United Nations with "world order" hasn't bothered to actually watch the United Nations.

                Ahem. It doesn't take biblical prophesy or magical beans to figure out that large, oppressive social systems are a danger for humanity...just as large, well-organized, rights-respecting systems are an opportunity.

                Those prophesies were written at the time of the Roman Empire, which was huge and seemingly immortal. There's nothing supernatural or prophetic about any of this.

                Abuse of power comes as no surprise. Who's more powerful than your earthly oppressors? Your supernatural saviors, of course.

                This is a pattern of history that we've seen repeated. Every time a regime gains power in the West, everyone starts screaming anti-Christ and beast of the sea and seven crowns and bowls of blood and flying horses and yadda yadda and it, ahem, NEVER FUCKING HAPPENS BECAUSE THAT'S ALL BULLSHIT.

                Oh, right, of course, not "bullshit" but instead a "metaphor for whatever just happened." Never anything so useful as a PREDICTIVE metaphor, heavens no. God will not be tested.

                No way anyone could have used the Bible in the 20's to predict the rise of the Third Reich. Oh, but of course, there was much talk about Hitler being the anti-Christ AFTER he rose to power. How very useful those prophesies are.

                Oh, but then we defeated him relatively easily (for "relatively easily" read "Christ didn't have to come back"), so no prophesy after all...all bets off and we reset the timer to zero.

                So, you're predicting that there will be a system under which people will be unwillingly put, treated unfairly and against which they may have to ultimately rise up and resist. Wow. Amazing. Now it's my turn: I predict that, at some point in the next year, water will fall out of the sky on all our homes.
      • Re: The Number of the Beast

        Tue, May 13, 2008 - 5:03 AM
        "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions."
        - Thomas Jefferson
        • Re: The Number of the Beast

          Tue, May 13, 2008 - 7:25 AM
          "How long will mockers delight in mockery and fools hate knowledge?
          Proverbs 1:22
          • Re: The Number of the Beast

            Tue, May 13, 2008 - 8:56 AM
            Before quoting scripture:

            1. Establish that god exists.
            2. Establish that your particular version thereof exists.
            3. Establish that this being communicated with man.
            4. Establish that this communication hasn't been diluted or changed.
            5. Establish that your interpretation is correct.

            As to knowledge, that's what leads me to mock such nonsense.
            • Re: The Number of the Beast

              Tue, May 13, 2008 - 9:44 AM
              I'm sorry, Grim, I am not obligated to convince you of God's existance before sharing with you prophetic scripture. That's like a thread, asking another thread, to prove the blanket they are woven into. That's a discussion for another thread, and has been beaten to death already.
              • Re: The Number of the Beast

                Tue, May 13, 2008 - 10:24 AM
                If you want me to take your nonsensical scripture remotely seriously or to treat it as having any authority then yes, you are. Otherwise there is absolutely zero point you bringing scripture to the table. You might as well just make a static noise like an out of tune radio.
                • Re: The Number of the Beast

                  Sat, May 17, 2008 - 10:58 PM
                  I do not wish, Grim, for every discussion to come back to the same discussion over the validity of God's existence, otherwise what is the point of having different threads for different topics? There are plenty of other threads that have bantered about that. That is not the point of this thread.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: The Number of the Beast

                    Sun, May 18, 2008 - 2:54 AM
                    If the question of god's existence has no validity then the discussing of other questions further into that topic are pointless. If you don't want every discussion to come back to that point might I suggest topics that don't depend on first swallowing the unevidenced faith belief that 'magic man in the sky done it'?
  • Re: The Number of the Beast

    Tue, May 13, 2008 - 9:48 AM
    For those who cannot believe...just take in the information and one day when you see these things happen, when a one world government and possibly a one world currency is setup (likely through the UN), and forced tatooing or implantation of a chip in order for you to buy and sell goods, then you're radar will go up and you will know that the Bible already told you this would take place.
    • Re: The Number of the Beast

      Tue, May 13, 2008 - 10:26 AM
      The disturbing part is that people take this to heart and are afraid of humanity becoming one and working towards mutual goals as though that were something bad. That places a massive, irrational obstacle in the way of bringing about world peace or working together, that's far scarier than an implanted credit card.
      • This post was deleted by Changeling
        • Re: The Number of the Beast

          Tue, May 13, 2008 - 1:55 PM
          I'm a realistic person, that probably seems hateful to the irrational because they hold their silly little beliefs in such great and personal esteem. Part of the process of counteracting that is to treat them as what they are, laughable.

          There is no topic, just more lame-brained paranoid fantasies that have no bearing on reality. People always think prophecy is coming true and they always think it's in their lifetime, that's remarkably egotistical of them as well as being insane.
          • Re: The Number of the Beast

            Tue, May 13, 2008 - 2:33 PM
            "The closed-minded know everything, but see nothing"

            Why do you even bother to discuss the topic when you yourself never even saw a topic. I understood what the topic was about, yet, for some reason you are incapable of seeing it.

            Instead of ridiculing and attacking the OP, why not talk about the actual topic? Or leave, it's really very easy. If you think this is stupid, then leave. We aren't forcing you at gunpoint to stay in this thread and suffer reading what is being said. Leave. Your presence here is a waste of everyone's time.

            As for the UN, they are a horrific organization. The road to hell is paved with good intentions and they have good intentions bleeding out of their ears. But their actions speak against such things. Just read the Law of the Sea Treaty! Don't read what people you idolize and worship have said about it, read the actual Treaty from the UN website! I have read it. One World Order is what the UN is all about.
            • Re: The Number of the Beast

              Tue, May 13, 2008 - 3:11 PM
              > One World Order is what the UN is all about.

              And I wish them lots of luck with that. The UN couldn't order lunch, much less the world.

              > The closed-minded know everything, but see nothing

              If they know everything, what difference does it make what they see?

              Excuse me, but what else could be more closed-minded then deciding that the truth was spoken thousands of years ago by people living completely different lives than us, who could barely be expected to comprehend most of what we take for granted?

              What could be more closed-minded than insisting that the most important insight into our modern, complex, cultural, technological, economic, global environmental problems was expressed in the FUCKING BRONZE AGE in the form numerological prophecies and wild tales about giant beasts?

              We have problems, yes. So did they back then. But addressing our problems with global treaties in these terms is little like fighting a modern war using nothing but Civil War metaphors.

              So, yeah, if you want to redress your grievances to the UN or to their supporters, by all means, invoke a bunch of biblical prophesies and foretell the coming of the anti-Christ and the rapturous war of Armageddon.

              That shit is REALLY fucking useful and insightful and you will in no way come off as a completely deluded crazy person.

              "The government is corrupt, therefore the river of life flows out of my third eye."

              Talk about not embracing the topic at hand.
              • Re: The Number of the Beast

                Tue, May 13, 2008 - 4:10 PM
                "> The closed-minded know everything, but see nothing

                If they know everything, what difference does it make what they see? "

                Look up sarcasm in the dictionary, might help you here.

                "What could be more closed-minded than insisting that the most important insight into our modern, complex, cultural, technological, economic, global environmental problems was expressed in the FUCKING BRONZE AGE in the form numerological prophecies and wild tales about giant beasts?"

                Hi Jake, nice to meet your alt. At least this one seems sober or at the very least, coherent.

                "So, yeah, if you want to redress your grievances to the UN or to their supporters, by all means, invoke a bunch of biblical prophesies and foretell the coming of the anti-Christ and the rapturous war of Armageddon.

                That shit is REALLY fucking useful and insightful and you will in no way come off as a completely deluded crazy person."

                In your deluded bubble you totally missed the point of the topic. I don't see anywhere of anyone wishing to address grievances with the joke called the UN. Instead, they were talking about the prophesies surrounding the mark of the beast, one world government, etc. which actually does have some relevance with what is going on today. One of those "we told you so" kinda deals.

                Truth is truth, no matter when or where it is spoken. I have said that time and again.

                Telling people their lives will be better if the give their starving neighbor some food is irrelevant in today's society? How pathetic for society!

                Telling people that sacrificial giving has more meaning than simply giving what you aren't currently using is irrelevant to today's society? How pathetic for society!

                Telling people to love their brothers and to talk to them with love when their brother wrongs them and to learn how to resolve conflicts within families and groups is irrelevant to today's society? How pathetic for society!

                Telling people to respect their spouses and treat them as important valuable people and not to cheat on them and undermine the sanctuary of the home and break the hearts of everyone involved is irrelevant to today's society? How pathetic for society.

                Thank goodness someone chose to speak the truth all those years ago, because it is quite obvious that people are fickle and will only stick with something while it feels good and is popular. Mindless lemmings is what I call those people. I choose to listen and live. I choose the harder path of learning to forgive the people in my church who fall back to their hypocrisies and favoritisms. I choose the harder path of not seeking revenge on those in society who anger me, such as suing them for a perceived wrong. I guess that makes me unique in today's hate-filled litigious society.
                • Re: The Number of the Beast

                  Tue, May 13, 2008 - 5:49 PM
                  > Instead, they were talking about the prophesies surrounding the mark of the beast,
                  > one world government, etc. which actually does have some relevance with what is
                  > going on today. One of those "we told you so" kinda deals.

                  Yeah, it's really super relevant.

                  So, let's put our money where our mouth is. Surely, if the United Nations is allied to Satan and on the verge of instigating a global, supernatural apocalypse, this would constitute a modest threat to our national and global security, no?

                  Surely, then, our military, political and economic leaders should be well versed, trained and prepared for the great rising of the Satanic tide, no?

                  So, surely, every public institution dedicated to the education and training of policy makers and responders should make biblical end-times prophecy their number one curriculum priority, no?

                  "We told you so." What fucking nonsense. "See, we said 2000 years ago that a big beast would rise up and now there's a global government organization that has policies I disagree with! It's ALL COMING TRUE!"

                  I know Hal Lindsey is our FAVORITEST author ever and all, but this canard has been perpetuated in every generation and Christians repeatedly humiliate themselves with this nonsense. Next you'll be telling us about the red calf, right?

                  These "prophecies" were not written for deep posterity. The people who wrote those things were commenting on the Roman Empire, which is gone. Time for some new material.

                  > Truth is truth, no matter when or where it is spoken. I have said that time and again.
                  > Telling people their lives will be better if the give their starving neighbor some food is
                  > irrelevant in today's society? How pathetic for society!

                  Again with the imprecision of language. The "truth" that we should be kind to one another is a different kind of truth than the "truth" that a monster is going to come out of the sea and bring about the end of the world.

                  The first sense of "truth" is "functional advice for humans to live their lives by." Surely, there are timeless principles like "be kind to one another." This kind of truth is opinion. Widely held, well supported opinion, but opinion nonetheless.

                  The second sense of "truth" is "statement of material fact about the universe." This kind of truth is not opinion. It's not my opinion that the sun should rise in the east tomorrow. It's a fact that it will.

                  Tying your opinions about the good and proper way for a human to conduct themselves to belief in wholly unprovable and outlandish fact and putting them both under the banner of "truth" so that, IF i accept that humans should be decent to one another THEN I must accept that the world was created in six days or whatever is a common tactic of confidence operators and marketing people.

                  Associate your product with core values and people will feel uncomfortable rejecting your product. It's Madison Avenue 101. It's not reality, tho.

                  But, you can say you told me so when this beast of yours arrives. Any day now. Just ask William Miller and Bishop Ussher.

                  > I choose to listen and live. I choose the harder path of learning to forgive the people in
                  > my church who fall back to their hypocrisies and favoritisms.
                  > I choose the harder path of not seeking revenge on those in society who anger me,
                  > such as suing them for a perceived wrong.

                  This isn't hard stuff, Wendy. We all do it. It's called "common human decency." Why is it so difficult for Christians to just be good people? Why do you need so much cosmic supernatural fanfare over the simplest, most mundane thing?

                  What 'humility' is it to demand such attention from the universe?

                  "I choose the harder path of digesting my own food and respirating with oxygen."
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                    Re: The Number of the Beast

                    Wed, May 14, 2008 - 7:26 AM
                    Common human decency huh? Just how common is it? That's like the term common sense. There is no such thing. People are naturally cruel and evil to each other. If you don't believe me, go to Africa. Go to the middle east. Go to Detroit. It is UNCOMMON for people to be nice to each other and to be self-sacrificing. It is common for people to be selfish, self-serving, vindictive, and cold-hearted. That's what makes it so unimaginable for someone to willingly die to save another. Your average human being would not volunteer "Take me instead of him, kill me and let the liar and the thief go free!"
                    • Re: The Number of the Beast

                      Wed, May 14, 2008 - 8:09 AM
                      we: Common human decency huh? Just how common is it?

                      Well, let's find out.

                      Do you have common human decency Wendy?

                      I'm not looking for self sacrifice, just being nice to others would do.

                      Or are you "selfish, self-serving, vindictive, and cold-hearted?"
                    • Re: The Number of the Beast

                      Wed, May 14, 2008 - 9:30 AM
                      Wendy, most people are relatively altruistic, society couldn't exist if this weren't the case. It is much more common for people to live together peacefully and help each other out, the problem is that it only takes one nasty sod to mess things up for a whole group of people.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: The Number of the Beast

                    Thu, May 15, 2008 - 12:26 AM
                    >The people who wrote those things were commenting on the Roman Empire, which is gone. Time for some new material.

                    This is inaccurate. This prophecy included Rome as one of the "heads" of the "beast" and that was the one that "is" and there was one still yet to come, which is the prophetic part.
  • Re: The Number of the Beast

    Tue, May 13, 2008 - 7:41 PM
    666 - The number of the beast
    667- across the street from the beast
    668 - neighbor of the beast
    660 - Approximate number of the Beast
    DCLXVI - Roman numeral of the Beast
    666.0000 - Number of the High Precision Beast
    0.666 - Number of the Millibeast
    / 666 - Beast Common Denominator
    666+(-1)^1/2 - Imaginary number of the Beast
    1010011010 - Binary of the Beast
    6, uh... what was that number again? - Number of the Blonde Beast
    1-666 - Area code of the Beast
    0666 - English area code of the Beast
    00666 - Zip code of the Beast
    $6.66/minute. Breasts over 18 only please.
    $665.95 - Retail price of the Beast
    $699.25 - Price of the Beast plus 5% state sales tax
    $769.95 - Price of the Beast with all accessories and replacement soul
    $656.66 - Wal-Mart price of the Beast
    $646.66 - Next week's Wal-Mart price of the Beast
    Phillips 666 - Gasoline of the Beast
    Route 666 - Way of the Beast
    666 F - Oven temperature for roast Beast
    666k - Retirement plan of the Beast
    666 mg - Recommended Minimum Daily Requirement of Beast
    6.66 % - 5 year CD interest rate at First Beast of Hell National Bank,
    $666 - minimum deposit.
    666% - Interest rate charged by Tony the Beast, local loan shark.
    666iv - Local statute number regarding Beast parking.
    Lotus 6-6-6 - Spreadsheet of the Beast
    Word 6.66 - Word Processor of the Beast
    i66686 - CPU of the Beast
    (sic) (sic) (sic) - three Beastly errors in spelling or grammar in the original.
    666i - BMW of the Beast
    • This post was deleted by Changeling
      • This post was deleted by Changeling
        • Re: The Number of the Beast

          Wed, May 14, 2008 - 8:10 AM
          we: You sure could have fooled me

          That must not be too hard, I find Jason and Jake have little in common beside opposing your position, no offense meant to either.
  • Re: The Number of the Beast

    Wed, May 14, 2008 - 11:49 PM
    Y'all take all the fun out of discussing anything of interest to this Tribe with all the name calling and nastiness and attacking individuals. It would be so much more valuable for everyone if you could stay on the topic at hand.
    • Re: The Number of the Beast

      Thu, May 15, 2008 - 6:22 AM
      Schirin, I apologize, I've been sick and off the computer for a few days. I'm sorry to see how quickly things deteriorated in my absence.

      Name calling and attacking are not allowed at the Crossroads and *everybody* needs to show a little courtesy,